Several readers wrote in to comment on contributing writer Steve DeGaetano’s article on the restoration of the Lilly Belle (link). Steve is the author of Welcome Aboard the Disneyland Railroad!: The Complete Disneyland Railroad Reference Guide.
Robert Flynn writes:
Very nice article on the Lilly Belle. I knew it was on the fast track to being restored but wasn’t aware that is was already underway. That’s great to hear.
Some additional information on who can ride on the Lilly Belle. Subject to availability, and upon presentation of his/her Club 33 membership card, the Club 33 member and his/her guests can receive a ticket to ride in Walt Disney’s private train car, the Lilly Belle. This privilege is valid only when the member is present with the party. The ticket is valid for a maximum party size of 10 and for the day of visit only.
Thanks for the additional information, Robert. It’s good to know that Club 33 members can also catch a ride in the prettiest car on the line.
Dan Rendant writes:
Great, well-researched story on the Lilly Belle history and restoration. Can’t wait to see it back in the park. Two questions—what happened to those original Disneyland passenger carriages? And what happened to the small orange hand car that was parked on the second track at the Disneyland train station for so many years? It was there until a couple of years ago.
In answer to your questions, the first five original passenger coaches (excluding the Lilly Belle), were traded to a local rail fan named Bill Norred here in Southern California many years ago for a large locomotive that was going to be called “Ward Kimball.” That engine proved too large for Disneyland, and it was subsequently sent to Walt Disney World. It was eventually traded again for a much smaller engine—the “Ward Kimball” currently running at Disneyland today.
Norred had planned to use the coaches for a small Victorian-themed amusement park he had planned, but before he could realize his dreams, he passed away.
His family then sold four of the coaches to a California Central Coast developer named Rob Rossi. Rossi had the coaches moved to his ranch near Santa Margarita, CA, where they are being restored, and where they are operated for the public a couple times a year, behind steam, on a several miles of track on Rossi’s ranch. When I last saw the cars a few months ago, they were still lettered “Santa Fe & Disneyland R.R.!”
The first car of the train, a combination baggage car with passenger seats (called, ironically, a “combine”), was kept by the Norred family, and as far as I know, still resides in a citrus packing warehouse here in Southern California.
The handcar, as you may have seen recently, was repainted and repositioned in its rightful place in front of Main Street Station.
Mike Rothstein writes:
Enjoyed, very much you article on the Lilly Belle history and restoration project. I’ll give you a Web site you may want to visit to see other examples of “Private Varnish” still on the rails and available for charter. Well, if you have the resources. If not, it is still great to explore and imagine.
The website is for the American Association of Private Rail Car Owners (link). Here you can see dozens of privately owned, refurbished and available-for-hire luxury rail coaches still out there. If you haven’t visited it before. Enjoy!
I’m passing your comments on to MousePlanet in case there are any other Disney train fans out there who might want to charter their own private car. If you can’t get a ride in the Lilly Belle, it may be the next best thing!
Mike writes:
Great article, Steve. It sure made me feel nostalgic. I worked on the trains as a conductor from the late ’80s to the mid-’90s and just seeing the Lilly Belle roll up behind Holiday 5 at the start of my shift gave me satisfaction that I had the best job in the park. Sitting inside, especially in the back country, one felt lost in another era. The dim lit, elegant interior gave you a sense of being far away from the present world we live in. At night, especially, it felt cozy and romantic. Contrary to what you were saying in your article, normal people rode in the car all the time. Any time I had friends or relatives in the park, I would ask Train Control for the key and we would take a loop around the park in it. It sure gave many a thrill. Toward the middle of the ’90s, it did start showing its age. Paneling was worn, objects were “lost” and not replaced, and fabric was soiled. I look forward to seeing it ride again. I’m sure it will be as beautiful as ever when they bring it back!
Thanks for writing this piece! I learned some history. Although I was fortunate to see and sit in an original Retlaw 1 car (stored as if in a train graveyard in the back reaches of the roundhouse), I never knew that the Lilly Belle was originally part of it. I will print this article out and keep it safe.
Thanks for the comments and additional information, Mike!
Several readers wrote in to comment on MousePlanet columnist Brian Bennett’s photo tour of the Canada pavilion in Epcot’s World Showcase (Part I | Part II).
Ian writes:
I enjoyed your photo tour of the Canada pavilion.
Just to spread the love and respect of some of my friends who are First Nation Canadians (no, not Indians, they are not from India) I’d like to just inform you that the word “Totem” is a foreign word. The word originated in Australia and means “to worship.” Well, First Nations cultures, and that includes those in America (many of whose boundaries cross our modern borders) do not worship these poles. They do not follow religion at all, they are spiritual people.
Each pole has a different name so if you do not know what the pole is called a few general names are: story pole (most common), family pole, mortuary pole, or memorial pole.
The poles in the Canada Pavilion are a complete joke and quite frankly are offensive as they show total lack of understanding for what these poles are all about. Their real meanings are far more interesting than Disney makes then appear to be. Especially a hidden Mickey on one. That is ridiculous to treat such an amazingly interesting piece of a rich culture with total lack of responsibility to those who actually live the culture and are fighting to sustain it. Here on the west coast of Canada the First Nations cultures are miraculously still around and even strengthening after years of neglect, disease and near genocide.
This is not a knock at you at all. For you I just have to say the totem thing, but in general it is interesting to note how little Disney actually pays attention to detail… ironic isn’t it?
It makes me wonder about all the art and detail in such great environments as the Animal Kingdom Lodge, and other pavilions in Epcot. Don’t even get me started on the Wilderness Lodge!
Anyways, the Canadian pavilion is nice and all the gardens do the best job of showcasing the country’s beauty. The pavilion does seem to capture the overall essence of this place… and I’m not sure how. It seems magical to actually experience this huge and diverse country while standing in one spot in another country. The disappointing thing is that the First Nations culture was used merely as a novelty in this great pavilion. It’s shameful, yet somehow understandable. I would like to see Joe Rhode redesign this one.
Thanks so much for your note and additional information on the poles in the pavilion!
Tyler writes:
I am a long-time reader of your columns and a former cast member of the Canadian pavilion at Epcot. I live in Toronto Canada.
Thought you might enjoy “Canada’s Historic Railway Hotels” at WorldWeb.com (link) It will tell you everything you need to know about Canadian National Hotels and the history surrounding them.
Note: You mentioned in part one that the Hotel du Canada is modeled on the Chateau Laurier in Canada’s capital city of Ottawa, Ontario… that is only partly true. It actually incorporates details from numerous Canadian National Hotels, including the Chateau Frontenac in Quebec City and Chateau Lake Louise in Banff, Alberta.
By the way, in answer to your question… the small houses across from Boutiques des Provinces were originally intended to house some sort of store, but it never happened. They are used for stock storage.
Inside the hotel, there is a single second story. This is used as a training room for merchandise cast members.
The owl and a few other critters you see overlooking the inside of the Trading Post were once working audio-animatronics; they have been silent for quite sometime.
The small limestone quarry used to host log rollers (you know, the lumberjacks who ran on logs in the water)… for the first few years of the pavilion.
The “wine cellar” in Le Cellier that you have pictured in your story—this space was originally intended to house an elevator to take guests upstairs (and down) to the Boutique. The elevator was never installed.
Thanks so much for your e-mail, information, and link! I’ll be sure to check it out.
Chad J. Mac Donald writes:
As a Canadian, I thoroughly enjoyed your “tour” of the Canadian Pavilion in Epcot. I think it’s one of the best in the Showcase. Of course, I could be a little biased. People make fun of me all the time for going all the way to Florida to look at Canada and eat at Le Cellier over the last 13 trips. We are getting married on the Disney Cruise in August 2006 and we are doing a few days on the land before hand. Guess where our “rehearsal” dinner will be… you guessed it Le Cellier.
I don’t know how true this is, but in August when I visited there was a display of candy bars (we call them chocolate bars). I thought it was odd and then the CM, from my Canadian city of Halifax, told me that they are bars you can ONLY find in Canada and not the US. Thought you would like this little tidbit. Great Job!
Thanks for your note, Chad. Next time I’m over at Epcot, I’ll try to track down a “chocolate bar” and see if it’s any good to my “American” taste buds.
Congratulations on your upcoming wedding!
Finally, Brian’s tour of the Kennedy Space Center (link) generated the following responses:
Carol Kelley writes:
Great article! It was especially neat to see that KSC’s Saturn V is under a roof and looks in good condition. The Saturn V at MSFC (US Space & Rocket Center) in Huntsville has been sitting outside for 30 some years and is in terrible shape. However, there is a push for donations to restore it.
I’ve lived in Huntsville all my life and have only been to our facility 1/2 dozen times. I may actually take a Saturday to go see the place again soon.
If your oldest son enjoys the space stuff, you might want to consider Space Camp or Aviation Challenge for him here in Huntsville. They even have parent/child weekends so dad can play with the toys too! My son got an opportunity to go to Space Camp in 5th grade and had a blast!
Thanks for the note Carol! I enjoyed a visit to Marshall Space Flight Center back in the mid-1990s. Seeing all the kids enjoying Space Camp was quite a site. It was amazing how many were involved. Frankly, I’d like to attend that program myself sometime, much less send my boys, so that parent’s weekend might just be the ticket for me.
Frank writes:
Of all the times I have been to Orlando (from San Jose, California)… I have only been off of Disney property ONCE… and that was for this tour. Great job on the article! I was so amazed in the difference between the huge rockets and the tiny capsules… Those guys had major “right stuff!”
Thanks Frank. It was a fun day. I’m looking forward to doing the “historical” tour that covers the Mercury and Gemini areas even more, since I’ve never had the chance to see that one yet.
No doubt they had the “right stuff.” I would have had a combination of claustrophobia, acrophobia, thanatophobia, and aeronausiphobia.
