Today’s mailbag is a continuation from Tuesday’s mailbag, containing letters received in response to the January 2, 2007 Disneyland Park Update regarding the practice of saving space for fireworks and other shows. First up, Morgan Joyner writes:
I think that leaving out blankets, bags, and strollers hours ahead of time in order to save spaces to watch the various shows at Disneyland is somewhat extreme and definitely selfish and rude. If you are going to insist on taking up a space such as one of the park benches for hours, making it so that other visitors are unable to sit and rest or just enjoy the atmosphere that is Disneyland, then someone from your party needs to be sitting with your belongings at all times.
If you are really desperate enough to have that one prime spot, then there shouldn’t be a problem with sitting there in person to save it. I personally have done my time sitting for two hours or more to wait for Fantasmic or a parade, at which point I earned that spot my family was sitting in. However, I am more likely to roll my eyes and fume silently about these situations rather than move someone else’s things.
I think that it would be appropriate for Disneyland to release a statement to visitors stating something to the effect that belongings are not to be left behind to reserve spaces and that they are likely to be moved by other guests if left unattended for more than a few minutes.
Deborah writes:
I totally agree with you on the issue of bench saving. As well, I would, have and will continue to respect some one else’s belongings until it becomes clear that the belongings are there without their owners present. At that point, I believe it’s necessary that those belongings be set aside to allow someone who actually needs to sit on those benches, sit on them. That’s what they’re there for, as I understand. It is unfortunate that the folks at Disneyland allow this type of bench restriction. Walt would never allow it.
ChryslerCarl writes:
I think saving spaces should be restricted. Proposed rule:
One person can save no more than spaces for two additional people. If there are more than three in the party, there should be at least two people actually occupying the space desired.
Disneyland Cast Members should remove any items placed on benches, curbs, or lawn IF there are not people present with the blankets, strollers, or whatever. Those who left the items could pick them up at a Lost and Found area after paying a fee (or penalty).
Kirk writes:
I just read your article and saw the pictures of the “saved” benches for fireworks and live shows at Disneyland and could not believe my eyes.
People have attempted this sort of thing for years, but in the past it was never allowed. I find it startling that Disney leadership would allow this bench saving practice to evolve as it has. I remember in the early days of Fantasmic when a lady brought out three chairs from the interior dining room of the Riverbelle Terrace to the patio and Disney cast members made her return them. “No saving,” they said.
To think this is no longer the case and now involves blankets and bags allowed on benches for hours before shows is really too much. One can argue this from many angles, but at the end of it all, it is just bad show. And that, simply, should be enough to end it.
Rebekah Stow writes:
I am a premium pass holder, and I see blankets holding spots all the time! Disneyland cast members should be instructed to politely inform guests that unless a body is present the place is not held. I also think that any lost blankets/ strollers/ towels left lying on the ground or a bench should be immediately taken to lost and found—for that guests convenience of course; since it was obviously accidentally left there!
Kelly Smith writes:
I ran into the problem you have described when I was a college student at Auburn University. The student section of the football stadium was general admission and if you wanted a half-way descent seat, you had to arrive at the stadium 2 hours before kick-off to get a seat, and you had to be waiting outside for almost an hour before that just to get into the stadium.
I always found it annoying for one person to be saving seats for 20 people, and then 30 would show up right before kickoff and try to force me out of my seat. I think one person should be able to save their seat and up to two additional seats. However, I don’t think people should leave bags, strollers, or other items unattended to save places.
Amber writes:
I think it’s incredibly inappropriate for people to save spots as is suggested in the photo in [the January 2, 2007] update. I believe Disney should have a policy of removing items that are left unattended for a specified period of time. If people are intent on having prime spots, then they should sit and wait in the spot.
I have myself never seen blankets, etc. left as seen in the photo. I know that if I want to see fireworks, parades, etc. I can always find a good location if I arrive at the designated time. I think we can see by this type of behavior, and I have noticed myself in my weekly visits to the park, that people have become increasingly rude and have a feeling of entitlement when visiting.
Glenn writes:
I am completely against people who put bags, strollers, blankets etc on benches, curbs or grassed areas to “hold” that space for events later in the day. As far as I’m concerned if you leave your stuff and are not there to hold the space, I’m doing you a favor by neatly piling it in a safe place so it doesn’t get stolen. It is quite acceptable for people to sit in the area to hold the space, and I can even go along with one person holding space for a small family. The family can then at least tag team and share the duties of holding the space. But even that tactic can be taken to extremes.
My wife and I were in Disneyworld Dec 7-16 and we found one child holding a bench for the family. When the rest of them showed up there were at least a dozen “family” members in the group. They were trying to force people on the curb in front of the bench to move aside to accommodate them. I think most people would be tolerant of one person holding space for each 4 to 6 people in a group or extended family.
Courtney McDaniel writes:
We looked at these pictures of a sleeping bag and blanket with great disgust, but not much surprise, as we have seen this often in our visits to Disneyland. As mentioned, the worst areas where this happens are by the waterfront for Fantasmic, and in front of the castle for the fireworks.
It is our opinion that if items like sleeping bags and blankets are left without someone with them, they should be picked up and sent to the lost and found like the refuse that they are. If someone is with the items, it is more difficult to address, but common courtesy should be a guide. One person should stay for every 4 or 5 people in the group, something like that. One person trying to save a large area for 25 people should not be permitted.
My wife and I try to be considerate of those people who are saving some area, but if their party is not there 10 minutes before the event starts, I feel no remorse in taking the space that they feel is theirs. This has earned me some dirty looks, but the one time someone tried to complain about us to a CM, the CM basically told them that there was no saving spaces, and that we were fine doing what we did.
Allen Huffman writes:
Space saving is just socially tacky. If Disneyland allows it as official policy, then fine. I’ll complain at City Hall next visit. But it’s not, and as a visitor from Iowa who thinks making one trip a year is a very big deal, it twirks me off to see this stuff happening.
I’d rather see Disney step in and offer hard-ticket “reserved seating” than see people leaving blankets and such. At least then, someone who can’t frequent the park would have a chance to get a good view of something without sacrificing hours of his or her limited time.
Make it fair, or make it cost. We’re used to being reamed (and should, sadly, expect it) at a Disney park, but we shouldn’t be used to rudeness.
Pete Keehn writes:
Without question this should be prohibited. As far as I’m concerned if the property left behind has been unattended for an unreasonable amount of time i.e., more than a few minutes, it should be either moved aside or collected and taken to lost and found as abandoned.
How would this type of behavior be viewed in the course of other everyday events? Would it be okay to leave my shopping cart in line at the store while I went about my other chores and then expect that when I returned after an extended amount of time I could just go right to checkout? Could I leave my golf bag on the tee and come back after lunch and expect to move in front of everyone else so I could tee off?
Perhaps there might be some appropriate signage that could be posted at the entrance advising that the holding of space in not allowed and then follow up with the removal of the “space saving” items… Great topic, thanks.
Greg writes:
If people want to hold a bench, space, etc., then I think they need to pay the price and actually sit or stand at the space they are holding. How long will it be before people start making their own “reserved” signs? The park needs to nip this problem in the bud and have a policy that no “reserving” will take place more than X minutes (preferably 30) before a show or parade. And I hate to say it, but I think a lot of it is done by the APs. Just check out the Coke Corner sometime.
Don Palmer writes:
I completely agree that this practice is becoming increasingly prevalent. I personally would never be so bold as to think I could “save” a bench for any amount of time. The only way the park will take any kind if action on this concern is if a lot of us out there take the time to send them our feedback—as I am sure you would agree. It would help if they would eventually place a notice in the daily guides as well as placing some carefully worded signs in front of the castle before fireworks, parades, etc. Not only is the practice of holding spots rude, I feel it poses a safety concern for guests (in the example of laying out large blankets for Fantasmic!). Thanks for your great coverage of the park! I look forward to the updates every week!
Holly Andrew writes:
On the subject of saving seats my opinion varies. From the photo you had posted it does appear that they were using their belongings to save that bench without having an actual person in attendance, to me that is ridiculous. However coming from a mother of two children, including one with Asperger’s Syndrome, I will admit that I have saved seats for my children and spouse while they went off to go on rides or catch a bite to eat while waiting for parade or show times.
I think that it is different if you have someone actually present and if you are being reasonable about it. Trying to save an area for 25 people, or for more than a couple of hours isn’t respectful of everyone else in the park. But hey I am always the first one to let the kids who are standing behind me during the parade move in front of me so that they can see better. I tend to be on the side of consideration for the situations of others as well as yourself!
On a crowded day at the parks to expect that a bench should be unavailable to anyone from noon on isn’t thinking of the grandparent who needs to rest their tired feet or the Mom or Dad that can’t carry their child for a moment longer. This is of course just my opinion.
Jon Crowley writes:
If someone is willing to sit or stand on a sidewalk or curb (sometimes for hours) to save a space for an event (such as a parade or fireworks), then have at it, so long as it doesn’t impede traffic flow or create a public safety hazard.
If you’re “willing to do the work” (take a powder on riding rides to wait for a front row view of a parade), then I think you’ve sort of “earned” the right for your “saved” piece of real estate.
However, if someone takes the lazy way of simply placing a blanket on a bench (such as seen in your column) as a “holder”—hours before the scheduled event—and then walks away, they forfeit the space to anyone in need of that space for its provided intent (as in: to rest their weary feet).
In my opinion, this is an act of a lazy, uncaring, and selfish individual. If I needed a bench and saw a blanket on the seat—unattended for more than, say, 10 minutes—I would, as you suggest, gently fold it, and gently put it to the side so I could take a rest.
Following this logic, I guess it would be OK for me to march to the front of a line at an attraction, and say, “I wanted to go on this ride an hour ago, but got a churro instead. I’m here now, so I’d like row one, please.”
John writes:
I was a live and let live kind of guy on the issue of space saving—until I saw your photo. To save a bench that others could use to rest just ain’t right. It’s a bench for sitting and resting not your personal find that you can then save for the rest of the day just for your use.
Disneyland should ban all space saving unless a person is doing it. If a person wants to sit on that bench for three hours, well then have at it.
Jeff Nielson writes:
I agree. Disney is so very strict on everything else. Why are they letting these tacky practices continue?
I feel even more strongly about something else though. I wish that somehow there could be bleachers, or perhaps a terraced area with permanent seats that pop out of the ground for Fantasmic, like the lights do. They are very controlling, but when I was there, they let some people stand and made some sit, and a lot of people could not see the show.
Also, I cannot sit on hard surfaces or stand for very long to save a place, and since I will not put inanimate objects on benches to save a place because I do not think it is fair, I miss a lot of live shows.
I’m in good shape, and only 47, but being tall, my feet and lower back can start hurting badly. I cannot prove this, and don’t want to be treated as special as an officially disabled person, so I just miss most of the live shows. Last time I saw fireworks, it was not a very busy day, but I saw them near Small World. It was so much easier to get a good standing place.
Thank you for your good article about this increasingly bad situation.
Roxanne writes:
For some reason I feel very strongly about this subject. I think it is insane that people feel the need to begin saving spots for events 10 hours before they happen! Maybe 2 hours—I understand that, being an early bird myself when it comes to these things. But I do believe that there has to be an actual physical being there to save the spots and that the ratio should not be more than 3 additional spots to each actual person. I’ve waited for over an hour for a great spot for the parade while my husband took the kids into the shops or went to get snacks. I parked the stroller, laid down a coat and plopped myself down on the bench to wait—and wait and wait!
Almost every time we’ve done this we end up chatting with another family and shared our spots with them. You have to be realistic. No one has any more right to the space than anyone else, and common courtesy is necessary. We’ve all payed to be there!
I can’t believe that a cast member would not remove a backpack or blanket that was left unattended for a length of time. I think that would the next logical place to find them would be the lost and found!
Burnt Toast writes:
I’m a former CM here of 14 years and I just wanted to chime in on what was going on lately with all these people who think they can leave their bags and stuff everywhere and expect people to respect that.
All you have to do is find your local Security Cast Member and inform them that there is an unattended bag and that it needs to be checked, because honestly, you don’t know if it’s a bomb waiting to go off on that busy park bench or whatever.
Unattended bags for any period of time, whether it’s on a stroller or a bench or whatever, are supposed to be checked by Security for any suspicious materials or whatever… and if it isn’t, should be taken to Lost and Found so that the owners can recover it.
If it’s been there for a long time and you don’t want to call Security, I’d just take it to Lost and Found myself… or get a Cast Member to.
Finally, MousePlanet staff and travel writer Lani Teshima adds these thoughts:
In today’s environment of heightened security, I’m really pretty shocked that Disney doesn’t seem to approach these as potential security issues. If someone were to leave a blanket (held in place by some duffel bags, but perhaps a bit wrinkled and looking lumpy like something might be hidden under it) at an airport—or these days, even just a public building—it’s more than likely that someone will immediately call 911, and you will have a bomb squad responding to the location pretty quickly.
It’s quite possible that Disneyland management just thinks of these as minor nuisances that aren’t enough to warrant action unless there is a direct complaint from another park guest. But I can bet you that if the management identified these as security risks, every cast member would be instructed to stay on alert for any “lost” luggage. CMs would immediately notify security, and these items will be whisked off to Lost and Found and quickly checked for any contraband or explosive devices.
All it would take is a single act of terrorism; a bomb hidden in a diaper bag that appears to be saving a spot for a parade. If this bag is placed strategically and detonated as the area around it starts to fill with families excitingly waiting for the next showing of their favorite parade, even if casualties are minimal, the ensuing chaos and bloodshed is sure to be videotaped and broadcast around the world (with news outlets like CNN and FoxNews showing logoed headlines such as “The War on Terror Strikes the Happiest Place on Earth” or “Terrorism Invades Disneyland”). Surely this is not something Disney will want to be associated with—especially if it’s learned by the public that such unattended luggage were routinely ignored and allowed to be left sitting around for hours in plain view. [Security screenings outside the gates are not at the same level as airport security screenings and would probably easily allow someone concealing contraband in their clothing.]
I cannot fathom a Disney park broadcasting recorded announcements about unattended luggage like they do at airports, nor would I ever expect to see a bomb squad with bomb-sniffing dogs patrolling the parks. However, it doesn’t take much to remove unattended bags, nor to add a short warning on admission media or park guides informing guests that unattended luggage will be moved to Lost and Found.
